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that would let taxes rise on the wealthiest households while protecting the vast majority of americans from tax hikes set to hit in january. welcome to the saturday edition of "and the washington journal." for the first 45 minutes of the program we are going to be talking about senate negotiating a fiscal clifts deal, what has been going on on that half of the capital. see what they are talking about and how things are going. we want to get your input and your part of the conversation. you can reach out to us on twitter. facebook, facebook.com/cspan. and you can send us an e-mail. this is more from the article, the lead story in "the washington post." they ride, the development marked a breakthrough after weeks of paralysis. joining us by phone is one of the authors of that article, and, laurie, welcome to the program. tell us, what kind of a deal did the president offered? what is new in the negotiations among the senators and between the senators and the white house? caller: there does not appear to be anything new. the policies they are talking about are the senate has been on the table
that protects the middle class from an income tax hike, extends vital unemployment insurance for americans looking for a job, and lays the groundwork for future progress. such a proposal could pass both houses with bipartisan majorities, as long as these leaders allow to come to a vote. if they still want to vote no, that is their prerogative. but they should let everybody else vote as well. that is the way this is supposed to work. we cannot afford a politically self-inflicted wound to our economy. the economy is growing. the folks you sent to washington have to do their jobs. the housing market is healing, but that could stall if folks are seeing smaller paychecks. unemployment rate is lowest it has been in 2008, but already families and businesses are starting to hold back because of the disfunction they see in washington. you meet your deadlines. you meet your responsibilities every single day. the folks you sent here to serve should do the same thing. we cannot let washington politics get in the way of america's progress. we've got to do what it takes to protect the middle class, prot
of america. that's why you've heard so much conversation about raising taxes. you raise taxes on the top 2% and you almost overnight, within the first 12 months, eliminate about 700,000 new jobs. you tack that on top of the regulatory reform, you're talking another 800,000 jobs "lost in america." so that's 1.5 million more americans out of work on top of 23 million americans. that's not the right direction. so my objective would start with a conversation of tax reform and spending control. >> \[inaudible] >> i would think that most americans are members of the tea party principally. we believe in limited government. we believe in lower taxes. we believe in keeping the government out of your pockets. if you believe in freekts, -- free markets, those are the basic tenets of the tea party. i would hope we all believe in that. that would be a decisive yes. >> \[inaudible] >> you look at his scorecard with the heritage action. he was a 98 and i was closing in on i think it was a 090. there was a couple that separated us, maybe some of the more well-known votes. other than that, i'm not quite su
to a deal. the white house had agreed to cut their tax ask by about 400 billion, to increase their spending cuts by another 400 billion and only ask for about half as much stimulus. they moved toward boehner by more than a trillion dollars. that was a lot of concessions from the team that had just won the election big. and they made them because they thought boehner was ready to say yes, the fiscal cliff would be averted, we'd have a good christmas and happy economic fun times for the economy would be right around the corner. they were wrong. >> we are nowhere when it comes to the fiscal cliff talks. let me tell you what's going to happen today. speaker john boehner, the republican speaker, is going to try to pass what he calls his plan b, which would just simply address tax rates for those making a million dollars or more and that's it. >> john boehner walked away from the obama administration's third offer. a giant, giant compromise. so he didn't like it when they led. he didn't like the 2340eshing. he decided instead to chart his own course called plan b. plan b was supposed to show pres
a 20% of gdp to 25% gdp and rather than cut spending raise taxes as necessary to support that spending and i would say that is in fact essentially the french model. and the question is whether it can support enough growth in the economy. >> paul: taxes are going up, we know that, spending, going up for sure even before the health care law kicks in. so, we are moving in that direction, particularly in the entitlement state. not reforming it, but actually expanding it. >> aen what happened this year was the supreme court helping this along, you have the justices essentially rewrite legislation changing the plain text that congress passed in order to declare obamacare constitutional, which is a little scary, that that highest justices in the land would take that sort of activist role and you mentioned france, dan, that's scary. the back drop of this whole presidential year is europe. we know where the path leads. and the turmoil and welfare states and how unsustainability and the high unemployment that comes with them and that was the back drop of our presidential campaign. >> paul: okay,
. at a news conference with the speaker in a call to extend the tax rates. some have urged congressman tom price of georgia to challenge john deere for the job. much more on what is next for the fiscal cliff. one week before we reach that point. the deadline is december 31, january 1. the president is in hawaii. the house and senate are also in set -- in session this week. elliot engel, weighing in on a number of topics, including rumors that former republican senator chuck a bill could be nominated as defense secretary. you heard from the president on friday as he nominated senator john kerry as secretary of state and the new speculation about chuckle over at the pentagon. here are the comments of congressman dingell, the incoming democratic member of the house foreign affairs committee. but there is a huge opposition to the potential nomination of chuckled to become the next secretary of defense, even the president obama has not made his decision. the former senator has come under fire for statements he has made, including one where he referred to the pro-israel lobby as the "jewish lobb
cliff. some $600 billion in automatic spending cuts and tax increases will take effect if no agreement is reached. obama and the rest of republicans remain of the impasse over the republican refusal to allow tax hikes even for the wealthiest americans. senate majority leader on thursday accused house speaker john boehner of holding up a deal. >> the american people i don't think understand the house representative is operating without the house of representatives. it is being operated with a dictatorship of the speaker, not allowing the vast majority of the house representatives to get what they want. >> adding to the urgency surrounding the talks, treasury secretary timothy geithner warned this week the u.s. will not be able to pay its creditors after monday unless the debt ceiling is raised. we will have more on the fiscal cliff talks, speaking with congressmember dennis kucinich after the headlines. environmental protection agency head lisa jackson has announced a resignation ahead of president obama's second term. jackson departs after a four- year tenure that saw advances in the r
, there are well down the light. they won the taxes now. by the time the cuts come in, this ought to be turned around and it was said, we do not need the cuts now that if it has turned around. host: lots of comments coming in of this but so far. one caller rights -- sarasota, florida on the line now. good morning, jill. caller: did morning. i have only one very short thing to say. listen, everyone out there. no matter what party believe in, they're used to be a wonderful country in africa called rhodesia. we are talking about african problems, but it was a bread basket country. produce things. now it is called zimbabwe. inflation is over 1000%. that is all i am going to say to the people watching and listening to this program because we are heading in the same direction. thank you and have a wonderful new year. host: a tear from bob now in the democrat light. caller: thank you for letting me have a chance to speak. i am more optimistic -- i a more pessimistic than optimistic. i just do not think they will ever get together like they should. my one comment is when they start speaking about the
max ferris and susan and larry. okay, larry, no deal on taxes and debt scrooging holiday sales and the economy? >> that's right, brenda, you know, i don't want to be the grinch here, but in a word we are scrooged. >> the grinch! >> very, very optimistic expectations and an outlook for retail sales that was very rosie and those optimistic expectations have faded as we've gotten closer and closer tthe end of the year with no fiscal cliff deal in sight. and as a result, consumer sentiment is falling off a cliff, just like the fiscal cliff we're going to fall off so we've got a problem on our hands and couldn't happen at a worse time and today, super saturday, the second busiest day of the year. >> brenda: well, a lot of retailers are saving the big discounts until right at christmas and after. if consumers know that, maybe they're waiting, too? >> that's right. a lot of us are procrastinators and haven't started our shopping and a ways to go. you retail holiday season ends on january 31st, not december 31st or december 25th. retailers close their year end books at the end of janua
on taxes and spending before the end of the year and they maybe get us into a recession, it's definitely happening. that was the whole point of president obama's press conference this afternoon. >> i still want to get this done. it's the right thing to do for our families, for our businesses, and for our entire economy. but the hour for immediate action is here. it is now. >> allow me a quick update here. that press conference, it came after president obama met with john boehner and nancy pelosi and harry reid and mitch mcconnell, so all the key congressional leaders. and listen to the president here. >> the american people are watching what we do here. obviously, their patience is already thin. this is deja vu all over again. america wonders why it is that in this town for some reason, you can't get stuff done in an organized timetable. why everything always has to wait until the last minute. well, we're now at the last minute. and the american people are not going to have any patience for a politically self-inflicted wound to our economy. not right now. i just have to repeat. you know,
over how to avoid that inevitable cliff, tax hikes, spending cuts associated with it, some of them are taking to the sunday talk shows to make their respective cases with just nine days until every american taxpayer feels the pinch. steve centanni, steve is there still any chance some sort of a comprehensive agreement can be reached? >> reporter: it's looking less and less likely. two sides in the did the debate had their say on sunday talk shows. there is a lot of talk and not much action. john boehner called off his public for a plan b, there has been no movement toward any kind of deal and some are saying the president wasn't to avoid that fiscal cliff. >> when i listen to the president, i think the president is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. he sees a political victory. he gets additional tax revenues and gets to cut the military which democrats have been calling for years. he gets to blame republicans for it. >> reporter: if nothing has done by the end of the year, taxes go up for everybody. >> gregg: will be the president be working on these issues during
the cliff. i'm. patti ann: i'm patti ann browne. they will try to avoid the across the board tax hikes for 90% of the american households and deep spending cuts. so far little to no progguess has been reported. gregg: chief white house correspondent ed henry is in the white us. ed, what do we expect out the meeting if any at all? our expectations are a little bit low. >> reporter: you're exactly right, gregg, expectations have to be low. lawmakers of both parties in conjunction with the president have missed one deadline after another. we have been saying for a couple weeks they had to get moving get this completed before christmas in order to give the house and senate time to debate and end up voting on whatever package they come up with. now that we're days away from actually going off the fiscal cliff where these automatic massive spending cuts as well as large tax increases got into effect you have to have low expectations. it appears the white house is very confident in waiting for the republicans to make the next move. they keep saying inside the white house this is up to the rep
for the holidays leaving the clock ticking down to an across-the-board tax increase for most americans. ten days is enough time to make a deal if republicans and democrats each decide to give some more ground. but tonight there are no such signs. that leaves millions of holiday shoppers tonight spending money against a paycheck that may soon get noticeably smaller. we'll dig down on how this could affect your bottom line. but first, let's find out where negotiations stand. nbc's kristen welker is traveling with the president in honolulu. hello, kristen. >> reporter: lester, good evening. president obama played a round of golf this afternoon but white house officials say this is also a working vacation for him and for his staffers. that is little comfort for the millions of americans wondering what the uncertainty in washington means for them. president obama arriving in hawaii after leaving a washington in disarray. while the president put politics aside for his weekly address -- >> michelle and i want to wish you a merry christmas and a happy holidays. >> reporter: -- on friday the focus was on
.o.p. that they should not stand in the way of a last minute deal on the fiscal cliff, democrats demanding higher tax rates on the so-called wealthy. joining us now is former investment banker carol roth. a, it seems like a total standoff and b, seems like we're headed over that cliff, it looks like it. here is the question for you, carol, if we go over the that cliff what happens to the markets? >> well, stuart, i think if we go over the cliff, the markets are going to react negatively, they reacted negatively the last time we revisited the debt ceiling for tarp, so, i don't think that the markets are going to be particularly happy, but i don't know that it's necessarily for the right reasonss i to think that we're going to get a deal here, but i think it's going to end up happening late january, maybe middle of january, but at the end. day, stuart, it doesn't solve any of our problems. stuart: i agree, i agree. >> and i'm so frustrated that we're 13 months in, we've had 13 months to figure it out and we're at the 11th hour. stuart: everybody is. the mood of the country, furious nothing is happening
leaders of congress to work towards a package that prevents a tax hike on middle class americans, protects unemployment insurance for 2 million americans and lays the groundwork for further work on both growth and deficit reduction. that's an achievable goal. that can get done in ten days. >> yesterday the house speaker john boehner failed to garner enough support from his own party to even hold a vote on his plan to raise taxes for those with an income over $1 million. >> while we may have not been able to get the votes last night, to avert 99.81% of the tax increases, i don't think they weren't taking that out on me. they were dealing with the perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes. >> "outfront" tonight, chief white house correspondent jessica yellin and dana bash. ladies, nice to see both of you. jessica, we'll start with you. the president's message was short and sweet and kind of basic. what do you think is different this time around in what he is saying? >> well, what's different is it is less than two weeks until the new year and the president is about to leave
with most americans facing a major tax increase in ten days. negotiations to avoid that went off the rails last night when some house republicans refused to go along with their own leadership. this evening, the president described himself as a hopeless optimist who was ready and willing to make a deal, but the speaker of the house said how we get there god only knows. we have two reports tonight. first, we'll go to major garrett at the white house. major? >> reporter: scott, tonight there is no bill written to avert the fiscal cliff. there is no road map to the drafting of that legislation. there are only hopes and aspirations-- both much smaller than the president would prefer. this is the president's own plan "b", a scaled-back bill that seeks to protect tax rates for households earning less than $250,000 and extend jobless benefits for two million americans out of work for six months or more. it's a shadow of the big deal contemplated only days ago. >> in ten days we face a deadline. in ten days, under current law, tax rates are scheduled to rise on most americans. >> even though democr
in an effort to avoid those series of tax increases and spending cuts due to take effect next year. what we hear is the senate leaders are there. speaker boehner and minority leader nancy pelosi have yet to arrive, but now we're showing you live pictures. maybe somebody is going to get out of that car, and we'll see if any of the other leaders will be heading to the white house. this is speaker boehner right now heading into the white house. we'll keep you updated as this hour progresses here. >> indeed, meantime, more red arrows here on wall street as investors are awaiting for any signs of progress from the white house meeting which is about to get under way. right now we're sitting smack on 13,000. we've clawed back from being below that earlier on today. the nasdaq has also moved to the downside by half a percent as we speak. the s&p 500, as we speak, folks, is now down for the fifth straight day. i think it's down about 1.3% over the course of this week. so far let's see what happens over the last crucial hour of this trading day. >> so the clock is ticking. all eyes are on the white h
they're principally opposed to tax increases that we don't have a revenue problem that we have a spending problem. to be on record as voting for a very anti-growth tax increase, i think, would imperil their house majority. >> and stf with just new years avenue, december 31st he. but he says actually the drop dead is the 27th to do the technicalities they have to do to pass by the end of the year. december 27th, that's just really a few minutes away. are they going to be able to do anything by then? >> they clearly could do something, but i think it's important for the republicans at this point to sit back and realize they've made a compromise. president obama walked away. now, the ball is in his court to actually give them something much better. if not these tax increases are going to be his, he'll own them and that's what they should want, rather than vote for something that's really going to hurt, hurt their reputation as being against tax increases. >> alisyn: but of course, the president, for whatever reason, thinks that polls and the public and his presidential win and the
the processing of businesses enterprise tax forms for their employee tax credits. so the processing and administration and it should be making it easier for businesses in terms of even filling out their own forms. so this is now live, and available, and it's on the oewd website, when you go to the tax credit information on their oewd website. license 123, we're still targeting for our mid-january site to go live. we're still on track for that. >> great. >> and we should have for you -- we'll have a presentation for you at the january meeting. the small business net payroll exclusion, chrised forwarded you the press release that the tax and treasurer put out about it. there is no new form, but deals with it on the tax filing form. and and i think it should be pretty easy. small business saturday was a great success. san francisco did very well in terms of number of businesses participating, but we had a mayoral proclamation. the board of supervisors did a resolution. we had the mayor tweeting. there is also an official letter from the white house to acknowledge small business sa
: kwame holman updates washington's spending and tax stalemate after house republicans decide not to follow the leader. >> brown: and mark shields and michael gerson analyze the week's news. >> woodruff: that's all ahead on tonight's newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> bnsf railway. >> support also comes from carnegie corporation of new york, a foundation created to do what andrew carnegie called "real and permanent good." celebrating 100 years of philanthropy at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and friends of the newshour. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: the remaking of the obama administration's foreign policy team began today as the president nominated massachusetts senator john kerry to replace hilary clinton as secretary of state. the former presidential candidate who lost to george w. bush in 2004 got the nod after u.n. ambassador susan rice withdr
up, it would pass overwhelmingly speaking that 250 he is discussing that would keep tax rates where they are for income amount for less than $250,000 increased those earning more. house speaker says senator reed should talk less and legislate more. senate democrats have not. they want to extend all the current tax rates and avoid some of the spending cuts. democrats are on their opening offer. they basically have not moved anywhere. there is less than a week to go. >> senator reid talking about a less than $250,000 limit. speaking right. exactly. liz: more on the fiscal cliff. let's bring in peter. with us is former clinton advisor doug shoen. we have basically mr. boehner saying, look, you senate, you have not come up with anything. >> i think, unfortunately, we will probably get around it. i think it is a worse outcome to avoid the cliff then to go over it. i think we should broaden the discussion and look at what is going on around the world. look at japan and europe. the japanese government is the glaring war on japanese citizens. it will create inflation. if the japanese citize
bachelor degrees. the grant pays for itself in the decade. that increased federal income tax rate, it pays for the cost of the po grant. half of the students are not traditional students, but the half that are, they have a typical work load. yet 10 years to pay back the government for the cost of a grant. then there is a 14% return on investment. it is not as much of an advance from the federal government. we should stop thinking about this as being purely a personal benefit to the students. and there is all sorts of good that comes from higher education. there is a lot of good that stems from a college education and as a society, we should be putting the highest possible priority on it. we get what we sow, and you need to be thinking about where we want our society to be in a few decades, and the way to that, and ever improving society is through education, not cutting the one thing that is a real investment. >> another thing i would say, i will give you an example from a parent loan situation. if you get a client, you fail this credit check. you get about $4,000 extra in student loans. i
are meeting since november. economists hope they'll come up with a plan to avoid automatic tax increases and government spending cuts. some fear the meet as good just for show, however a big development with the senate minority leader. he spoke directly with the president for the first time in negotiations. >> i told the president we would be happy to look at whatever he proposes but the truth is we're coming up against a hard dead line here and as i said, this is a conversation we should have had months ago. >> the main sticking point is who should pay more in taxes. democrats want a hike on households making more than $400,000 a year and republican aids say their leaders might get on board with that offer. >>> meanwhile if they aren't able to avoid the fiscal cliff people here in alabama will be especially hard hit. that's because prop 30 will soon mean higher sales taxes and higher income taxes on the state's top earners, the fiscal cliff would add to that hitting all american with higher taxes. >> i don't know if there's a word to describe how upset the public is going to be. nobody'
remain before the u.s. goes over the edge. that means tax hikes and spending cuts that could trigger another recession. congressional leaders will meet today at 3:00 p.m. eastern time. the full house not even expected to return to work until sunday. here is the guest list for today's showdown. the president, vice president biden, senate majority leader harry reid and house minority leader nancy pelosi on the democratic side. house speaker john boehner, mitch mcconnell representing the republicans. brianna keilar live from washington. what do we expect to happen today? any new offers from the president or house speaker? >> we don't know. right now, all eyes on the senate to see what senate majority leader harry reid can cobble together to get some republican support. technically, it's still possible to come to an agreement. that said, politically is a different story, and the prospects for coming to a deal are starting to dim. right now, we're hearing a whole lot of the blame game. a lot of public posturing from both sides as they prepare for the possibility of going over the cliff. l
that millionaires or people who make more than $250,000, you tax them more that's going to solve the deficit problem that's just not so. i think it would be better for the country if we go over the fiscal cliff. and i'm not sorry this has failed. i do not think this has helped john boehner's speakership. >> that quote right there certainly didn't help the president's stance either. if you tax all the people that make more than 250 k that is the solution. >> the cbo didn't help him either with those numbers because $250,000 tax the cbo has said wouldn't solve the problem. >> this barely makes a dent. >> you have to cut spending obviously and that's what we think that howard dean was alluding to. meanwhile, charles krauthammer had an interesting theory on "special report" last night in which he also tried to figure out what the president's ultimate strategy is and what game the president is playing. i had not heard this theory before. let's listen to charles krauthammer. >> if he was only interested in the budget, in the fiscally balancing it, he would have said i don't care how you get the money. can
to true tax cheats -- and that doesn't mean something that's under discussion or under litigation. that's ones that have already been deemed tax cheats. and the second thing is to not pay money to people who are deceased already. what did we learn from katrina? we -- we learned that nearly a billion dollars of katrina money went to people who owed billions and billions of dollars to the federal government. so -- and these weren't disputable facts. these were real facts. we also learned that we spent significantly, over $100 million, granting grants and money to people who were deceased. so all we're saying in this bill let's learn from our mistakes and let's not do the same thing. so this puts a prohibition on money going to people who have a legitimate adjudicated claim by the i.r.s. against their not paying taxes due to the federal government that they in fact will not participate because they didn't participate. and the second thing is if in fact you don't exist anymore in life, you shouldn't be collecting money off our kids to pay for something that isn't a real need. the final poin
in sight just more of the same way blame game . e week before the taxes are going to sky rocket. steve is live in washington. >> good morning, gretchen and everybody. washington is shut down for the christmas holiday . when everybody does come back to town, the ball will be in the democrat's court because speaker boehner was unable to bring his on board. for the plan b. >> onous is on senator reid and the president to come up with a solution and present it to the house and get back to the bargaining table. >> now the president has insisted on a tax hike for the healthy but wants that at $250,000 or $400,000 and not one mill yen and even though the president scaled back his expectations for what can be accomplished some democrats said a grand bargain shouldn't be that hard to reach. >> we ought to take peeker boehner and the president's last offer and split the difference and it would be a package 2.6 trillion can couple that with 1.1 trillion and that would be close to four trillion needed to stabilize the debt and bring it down. >> the president and members was congress will return to
-standing relationship with. >> anyway you are doing a good job. >> i have this little gas tax bill though that i'm starting out minimally. i'm not giving -- getting any support, even minimally. i bet on all my arguments and i have people worrying about it now. they won't raise taxes because grover said no. >> when coburn takes off 6 billion on ethanol and grover calls it a tax increase, i called him. >> tom is helping on this. i'm gaining ground. >> is she well? and to listen there. sam donaldson said he would. >> would you mind holding this book for her one of our member's? >> i didn't write this book. i don't get any money out of this. the money goes to the author. i don't get any. no, it's true. >> thank you so much, sir. thank you so much. >> you are welcome. yours get special care. >> hello, senator. i used to work with michael toner at center thurmond's office in the 80's and this is my husband. we are big fans of yours. >> i needed in my line of work. >> you are sweetheart. it's so nice to see you and i can't wait to read this. a. >> it's a good book. i will personalize it. >> we are gett
of the estate tax because they will have to give something on the rates, and they want to push the threathold of the rate increase as high as they could and go back to the $400,000 that they were offered from the president before. >> right. >> and all of that is absolutely true, and also in addition, what we are looking at of course is the poll numbers. when you talked, i thought it was brilliant that you said that we are the cop tes tantntestant the reality when you look at the republican actions in particular, and the republican actions are polling 20% approval and the president is polling 50% approval, but the 20% approval is about the action on the cliff and not how they play in their individual districts. so when you travel around the country, and i have been to e tea party country in arizona, et cetera, there is a huge incentive for some of the more junior members of congress to stand their ground. it doesn't have to do with the fiscal math of the country, but it has to do with the electoral math of the home districts. >> and i think that she has put the finger on the thing that we are
, millions of americans don't even know there are about $260 billion worth of obamacare taxes coming their way beginning january 1 in everything from medical devices traditional search taxes on investment income. it is about half the size of the fiscal cliff, if you will, tax hikes that could well be added to them if the year finishes the way we stand right now. >> absolutely, lou. i found it interesting if you read the affordable correct many of the onerous mandate created by obamacare were exempted for the unions so i found it interesting that the administration is looking out for the union and not looking out for the state and individual citizens to bearey the load of this. lou: your ground operation would have been a little stronger. you could have prevented people of laws.sorts you don't find that as fair and equitable, right? >> we challenged on constitutional grounds, w but dd not quite get it all. lou: more lawsuits to come and we will see how those, as well. the great state of south carolina. great fobeing with us. hsbc agrees to being a mexican drug cartel bank. terrorists.
. he gets all this additional tax revenue for new programs. he gets to cut the military, which democrats have been calling for for years, and he gets to blame republicans for it. >> so, hey, merry christmas. our white house correspondent brianna keilar is traveling with the president in honolulu. brianna, are the white house and republicans even talking? >> reporter: no. they're not, carol. there's no substantive discussions going on between the white house and senate democrats and senate republicans and house republicans. and this is key because in order for the cliff to be averted, there will need to be something passed through congress in both the senate and the house that would require the work of both democrats and republicans. that is very much an issue as all attention now turns toward the senate, which will reconvene on thursday. a lot of focus there. that's where things are expected to start. right now the white house is still saying that they want a plan to avert tax hikes for folks making $25000 or less. it's sort of unlikely, it seems, that republicans would support
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 58 (some duplicates have been removed)